2005-02-11 [HiddenFire]: if you say we're two genes off then you're saying we only have 100 genes... we have upwards of 30 thousand... making there be at least a difference of... at least 600 genes difference... however, that percentage is incorrect due to the fact that it's based soley on protein production... we produce 98% of the same proteins. However we have several genes that are different or the same that are simply expressed differently... and in different proportions. Genetics is more complex than that... findings have also shown that if we go by sheer protein production as the basis for determining genetic simularity then our closest living relitive is the zebra fish.

2005-02-11 [HiddenFire]: that's why the information will allways be off until the entirity of the chimp genome is mapped... human genome is allready mapped if I'm not mistaken.

2005-02-11 [RaineDrop]: yes, i noticed my typo about the 2 geans 2% thing...but the chimp, genetically, *is* our closest animal cousin thing...but i have to go to bed...it's 2:30am and i'm sick...night

2005-02-11 [HiddenFire]: yeah... I have a flight to catch tomorrow... I had better be getting to sleep as well. Good night RD.

2005-02-11 [RaineDrop]: nightynight

2005-02-11 [Snowboarding Hobitz]: ACK!! i missed a bunch from last night!!!!

2005-02-12 [Lioness123]: hobitz, I don't even try to keep up anymore, its just too much to follow

2005-02-12 [Snowboarding Hobitz]: haha, sometimes i try to re-read everything....but yeah, most of the time I just let it go

2005-02-14 [Queen of Hearts]: everyone has a different opinion on things you may think that but there are many that think it is indeed wrong what gay people believe in and we just have to respect what every idividual believes in

2005-02-14 [deus-ex-machina]: hmmm, what do gay people believe in? the only thing i can think of is not exactly something you believe in - and thats finding a sexual attraction in a member of the same sex. do straight people BELIEVE in fucking the brains out of the opposite sex? sexual desires are not something that are to be believed in, nor are they there to be made a statement out of... I would love to know why people who 'hate' gays or anal sex hate them so much... reasons? O.o ahhh well, wrong wiki i suppose, LOL! although, Lysator... very tactful *sighs sadly*

2005-02-14 [duende_negro]: Well maybe you could have this talk in Not Alone or... in a gay wiki (Which is not the suppor gay mariage wiki ....)

2005-02-16 [Kurai Tenma]: Lol. I started one: gay marriage debate, and well... there were only two of us that were against it... and we won.

2005-02-16 [duende_negro]: I think this debate will never end.. well for now It won't... it has many oppinions...different people ...IT's to difficult to undersdtand sometimes... and I think it's true.

2005-02-16 [Kurai Tenma]: True, that; true, that.

2005-02-16 [duende_negro]: Yes. If we think about it... its like politics.

2005-02-16 [RaineDrop]: and according to the last statistics i read, 90% of americans are against Gay Marriage...if it is just "politics" then come to politics, the hetero marrige will remaine the only marriage there is

2005-02-16 [Mayuya]: love is love whatever be the sex, i'm straight, but just for that I don't be against the gay marriage, if i'm straight I will look for a straight man, but why gays can't have the same oportunity , they need them space on the society, i guess US society is very discriminatory one...gays, latins, black people, poor people...

2005-02-16 [Mayuya]: Isn't it?

2005-02-16 [Mayuya]: heey...I'm not telling that all north american citizens be discriminatory, but a good part is....!!!

2005-02-16 [RaineDrop]:  

2005-02-16 [RaineDrop]: it isn't "love" it is a mental disorder...like incest...it's wrong...and we deny family members to marry, as we do gays...

2005-02-16 [Mayuya]: are u sure is mental disorder, why the straight can't be the real metal disorder, I'm not fighting ok, is just a discussion, I really don't thing is a mental disorder, if u see, there are a lot af straight people living with a partner like me, so this goes againts the religion and adam and eve etc..so i'm living in sin, do i have a mental disorder like gay people???

2005-02-16 [Rizzen]: I believe she means a mental disorder in therms of sexual orientation, which is in fact governed by the brain. Hetrosexuality could not be a mental disorder as the vast majority of people are straight, as well as hetrosexuality fits in with reproduction. Homosexuality on the other hand in the complete opposite. Even my psychology texts refer to homosexuality as a type of mental disorder. You'r living with you'r parter has no relation to it, besides the fact that it is a hetrsexual relationship

2005-02-16 [Mayuya]: It is because i am, but i have a mental disorder....I'm epileptic, so no all mentals disorder go there, I'm not phicologyst ok (and sorry my english , I'm latin) maybe the reproduction method is on our brains , but we don't pic our partners with our brain, the heart, the soul does...when i pick my partner i firts feel in my heart he is, but no one of straight people knows if in a future can be with a same sex person, i mean , i know about some straight couples, but in time they need to know what is the gay way, so they are now bisexual, and there are many "strraight" men and "women" than like bisexual people too, so what it is a disorder, pervertion or just, don't know what i whant?...

2005-02-16 [Mayuya]: maybe in the reproduction u have reason, but why to take them away they rights??? they are people too, equal than us

2005-02-16 [Rizzen]: well, we've covered this before many times, so I'll give the reasons that were given then. Marriage is a religios ceremony, and homosexuality goes against reliegion. However, civil union is still available to them. It provides all the benifites of marriage, without involving religion. We just want them it to be illegal for them to marry, they will still have civil union. Oh, and for what you said about how we pick our parters, yes, we pick with our hearts, but the hormons that govern which sex we are attracted to are governed by the brain. Studies have shown the homosexual people either do not have or have an imbalance in the homones that hetrosexual people have

2005-02-16 [Mayuya]: well aboutreligion, i'm sorry is the fisrt time in here and don't know about other topics....well ok about the hormones, and bi people so???

2005-02-16 [Rizzen]: yes, bisexual people suffer from the same imbalances the homosexual people suffer from, though admitedly on a smaller scale

2005-02-16 [Kurai Tenma]: Your brain does choose your sexual cravings. Who was the one that posted that link on here? Some scientist conducted a study on rats, and if they had so much stress put on them before they were 3 weeks... they became gay. But the females were unaffected. So, basically, it must mean that if sexuality isn't a choice, then all women are bi. Mine is far from... so, I guess that leaves it being a choice.

2005-02-16 [Mayuya]: i really don't understand about bisexual people...if they are bisexual...u mean just in an small scale, like "i am a woman but mymascules hormones have just a little bitmore that's why i like both sexes"? that is your point???, really strange, well i don't know about it just this cases that after years being hetero wanted to know what is being bisexual so i don't beleive in maybe, after 40 year your hormones can go more or less....can u explain me...i repeat i'm not phycologist ot MD...so please i am here to learn....

2005-02-16 [RaineDrop]: reproducting is what our bodies prepare from the moment we are concived...then again at puberty...it is what in natural...homoseuality goes against that, and they have been able to show that gay people's brains are not normal, and it's considered a mental disorder

2005-02-16 [Mayuya]: ok...but my qtion is, i know this hetero partner..they have years marry, so why they are looking for bisexual people to have sex? if they are normal all life, it can change that fast????

2005-02-16 [RaineDrop]: they are, according to my text book, unhappy with their life, and try outragous things...it used to be things like drugs and partying in midlife...or excesive spending of money...(mid life crisis....) but now, people are more sexually liberated than ever, and well do things like have sex with their own sex because it is seen as "out of the box" and a young hip thing to do...it is a big change from the life they are currently leading and that they are trying to flee from...

2005-02-16 [Mayuya]: I mean i can be hetero today and bisexual tomorrow???? is just a question, if it is a mental disorder than comes with the age i mean puberty almost all of them , so how can a hetero partner, years marry, not me ok, just a real situacion i know, can change to make themselfs bisexuals?, I'm not againts anyone but is a real thing i have on my mind and well if you can give me the answer i will be thankful, cuz i don't understand that change so fast .....

2005-02-16 [RaineDrop]: as for young bis...the same applies...it is different, it isn't entirely accepted, so it is like a rebellion, "you say it's wrong? well, why *shouldn't* i do it" sort of attitude...youth tend to be very liberal in their thinking and believe, "you can't tell me what to do" and will do things just to spite people...being Bi right now is a status symbol...it is, for the young, to say "i'm cool, i'm hip, i accept everything so that people will accept me"...it is a search of identity and someone to relate to...not really sexually based, but social

2005-02-16 [RaineDrop]: they *don't* change...that is what i am saying...they are *looking* for change...they don't *love* their own sex, but want to be different, often dissatisfied with their repetitive staleness of their menial lives

2005-02-16 [Mayuya]: could be, but for me , love don't have sex, neither differences...maybe this partner i know over 30 or 40 years don't know what they are until know or maybe they marry without love just because *society* , so maybe they can't feel good one each other if they want another one or two or three or whatever...I know this case because she is a friend of mine (out of et of course), i just don't know what is wrong or right, i just only know that people have feelings and if those feelings attract and make me love my same sex , for me is ok...in my place they will have them space....for me they are feelings, maybe ok, just a little disorder if u want to see like that, but at the end they need 

2005-02-16 [Mayuya]: them space, and if is just a little disorder they can marry, if they don't, i guess i can't neither, I'm epileptic remember?, so I have a little disorder too, if we see this, so, the body is managing our feelings and soul..

2005-02-16 [RaineDrop]: i have disorders too...many of them...what is your point?

2005-02-16 [Mayuya]: I told my point, i'm sorry if my english is not so good to express my thinking, the point is i always will support gay marriage, all can have a mate, a husband or wife...it doesn't matter the sex, for me is still being from the soul and heart...thanks for giving to me a little attention, see ya latter!!! ^^

2005-02-16 [RaineDrop]: later

2005-02-16 [Mayuya]: yes with one "T" hehe thanks....bye!

2005-02-16 [Kirikale]: I don't know what psychology texts that you have been reading... but the APA (American Psychological Association) hasn't considered homosexuality to be a mental illness since the 1970s.

2005-02-16 [Kirikale]: This is what it says in their manual: The American Psychological Association supports the action taken on December 15, 1973, by the American Psychiatric Association, removing homosexuality from that Association's official list of mental disorders. The American Psychological Association therefore adopts the following resolution: Homosexuality, per se, implies no impairment in judgement, stability, reliability, or general social or vocational capabilities: Further, the American Psychological Association urges all mental health professionals to take the lead in removing the stigma of metal illness that has long been associated with homosexual orientations. 

2005-02-16 [Kirikale]: I didn't make that up. It can be found at: http://www.apa.org/about/division/cpmpubint4.html#27

2005-02-16 [Kirikale]: I'm straight, and I'm not a big supporter of gay rights, but it really pisses me off when people act on hearsay, because they just come off sounding ignorant.

2005-02-16 [Mayuya]: Did I need to read text of phycology to think what i think or to show u what i want of me????, I'm straight, I have gay friends, bisexual friends and i'm happy, when i see on the face of the other a smile I feel happy and if they are ill but are happy, i prefer to see them "ill" but happy, love is love wherever u put this, my dad is MD and he have gay friends too, mom, is stupid to make them at a side because they just love in other way....

2005-02-17 [HiddenFire]: wait! Gay "Marriage" is bad but civil unions (all the same rights/privs) is ok? A rose by any other name is still the same flower. It's a name game then? There are religions who are not against gay "unions" and they will "join" two of any people. What kind of implications does the "civil union" have on society? Will hetero couples be able to get civil unions? Why would they want one over the other? Would all "marriages" that are done by non-religious people be considered civil unions? It's all rather strange if you ask me.

2005-02-17 [duende_negro]: If you think about it... gay "unions"... just unions.. two, four...gays together are what people are complaning about. Yes at the end.. it's the same name...But christians say "marriage is in the eyes of god"..and "Civil unions" are just stupid papers ( I mean civil Marriage)... I do think that--- but at the end... if two gays get "married" under the eyes of good.. it would not be allso.. an "union" then?....

2005-02-17 [duende_negro]: if Christians are againt it...( I mean the religion...)

2005-02-17 [Rizzen]: a union yes, but homosexuals will never marry under the eyes of God. God does not support homosexuality, heck he even destroyed two cities because of it. As for the psychology text thing, you'r right. In my psychology class we had been comparing psychology today and in the past, but on that topic we had not gotten to the modern thoughts on it yet. Oh well

2005-02-17 [HiddenFire]: Read: http://www.gayxjw.org/bible.html I may or may not have shown this to the people here before. I found it interesting... it pretty much shoots down the argument that the bible is against homosexuality by challenging all the verses that are generally accepted as being against it. I found it interesting... It even shows a few examples of very strong relationships/"unions" between members of the same sex... even though it cannot prove any actual sexual contact between the them.

2005-02-17 [Rizzen]: I'd take it more seriously if it weren't written by Jehova's Witnesses. The sect has a history of twisting things to their own ends, and thus I don't fully trust what they are saying. The writer of the page puts in too much personall opinion in my mind, and the "essay" is not completely unbiased

2005-02-17 [Mayuya]: I don't know...If God make all of us the same way....(i'm christian ok?), why can't they?...if all equal in front of the eyes of God.....is something that don't have explination...........

2005-02-17 [HiddenFire]: I'm not too fond of the jehova's witness either... are the jehova's witness a sect of mormanism? I can never remember... no wait...that's the Church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day Saints... right? I don't know... still... neither are much good... and you must admit that almost ALL information on the topic is biased. With the topic being as polarized as it is, I'm not suprised. Everyone is trying to prove their point. You really can't blame them.

2005-02-17 [HiddenFire]: Still, I doubt that anyone who has any respect for the bible could possibly flat out lie about such things. Especially people who claim to be as devoutly religious as the witnesses.

2005-02-17 [HiddenFire]: It also appears as they might be ex-witnesses... left the church for these reasons.

2005-02-17 [Mayuya]: I'm not blame....if all of us have a point of viwe , i can make the others know which is it...but well...is ok...I'm sorry, I wanted just to informate which is it..no more, so , it was very good to be in here and have this discussion, but as like u say, is polarizated so, it will be infructuose still discussing about it, thanks for giving me a place in your wiki...and is I can help one of u , I'm at your order...thankful have a place in here...[Mayuya]

2005-02-17 [Rizzen]: we are glad to give you a place. As I've said in many a discussion, all are welcome, as long as they remain civil.

2005-02-18 [Kurai Tenma]: About the Bible part up yonder... People change things to meet their needs. I mean, look at "The Message." You can't even tell it's the same thing. People change things, then they claim them to be the original. The strongest love in the Bible, aside from Jesus's Death, was between Johnathon and David, wherewith "he loved him as his own soul." Says nothing about sexual activities. Trust me, the Bible brings out many many details. If they could write something that intimate, both of them would have been stoned, because it would have been a common fact.

2005-02-18 [Rizzen]: amen to that

2005-02-18 [HiddenFire]: So someone says "no that's not what it says... let's read the original texts... nope says this other thing." and you say "I can't read hebrew, you must be fibbing." right?

2005-02-18 [HiddenFire]: Note how they didn't claim that the people they mentioned where in a sexual relationship. Only that they deeply loved one another and had some sort of union/bond that one could compare to marriage. I know it's a stretch... and quite frankly I think their argument is perfectly solid without it. Still you must realize that when you read the rest of the chapters, unless you want them to be about homosexuality, you can clearly see that it's about idol worship. I've read it, checked my own bible, and I agree with their findings that idol worship is much more appropriate.

2005-02-18 [Rizzen]: and who says it wasen't both?

2005-02-18 [HiddenFire]: if you mean that it's about men giving sexual favors to male priests as part of a pagan fertility rite, then yeah... but that's about it. Actually there is one thing I know for certain, the bible never mentions homosexuality between women. I don't even think it was a stoning offense... it's not mentioned as counting as adultry... Don't you think that's rather odd? And yes, I do read my bible.

2005-02-18 [Rizzen]: odd, no. since you read you'r bible, you will see that back then women were possessions. Also, I doubt lesbiandism was widespread. Women had no rights, barely even time to have a realation with anyone besides her husband. Working all day, with both kids and the home, as well as cooking and pleasing her husband, there is very, very little time for oneself

2005-02-18 [HiddenFire]: not to mention the widespread practicing of genital mutilation... they would basically remove the womans clit to make it to where it was damn near imopossible for her to enjoy sex. Take into account that the bible was written by people who thought like that... though that doesn't really mean anything does it? In any case, I would prefer to listen to the words that are claimed to be direct from Jesus' mouth... and not the opinions of the human appostles.

2005-02-18 [Rizzen]: however, the apostles preached what Jesus preached. ignoring them is ignoring the words of Jesus. as for the sex thing, perhaps the old testament, but the new testament was written by those who followed Jesus, so they wouldn't have supported that whole deal, as it conflicted with the whole "not hurting people" dealy

2005-02-18 [HiddenFire]: genital mutilation was considered female circumcision... it's still practiced today in many middle eastern countries... in some religions it's a requirement for marriage. But enough about that... if you read the bible it is littered with instances where the appostles "just didn't get it." And there are some parts that are the opinions of the appostles... I've forgotten which one... but one appostle said that it's best if you never get married... talking about selabacy(sp?). Some of it is also based on cultural stuff such as "A woman shall have no power over a man. For a woman to speak in church is disgraceful." etc...

2005-02-18 [HiddenFire]: Apparently 1Cor. thinks that women can only find religion through their husbands or fathers. Therein they are forbidden to have any say in church matters and if they have any questions/objections that they should wait until they are home alone and bring it up with their husbands. I was once told that this was because the men and women in a certain church where arguing about church affairs and this particular appostle told them to, more or less, tell the women to shut up... but it was for the churches own good... until you take into account the verse that states "for a woman to speak in church is disgraceful." I'll find those verses real quick.

2005-02-18 [Rizzen]: actually, the history behind those verses is a bit different. When that particular verse was written, it was because the women in the church were shouting out in the middle of services, interupting them without saying anything useless. You see, I read y bible as well, but also know the history behind it too. Pershaps it was because partly of the arguing, but my professor only mentioned the shouting out during service

2005-02-18 [HiddenFire]: There is an example of a difference in opinion about the meaning of the scripture. In the Chruch of Christ, those verses are taken literaly and they will not allow women to have any part in teaching men (they can teach boys... those who are underage). Where as many scolars believe it to be an entirely different message. It happens... and more often than it should.

2005-02-18 [Rizzen]: which happens more often than it should, women not being allowd to speak, or the entirely different message dealy

2005-02-18 [HiddenFire]: That was my point exactly. People read scripture and they infuse their own beliefs into them. You get what you want to from the scripture. People generally read to confirm or contest a certain belief. They read to say "I'm right" or "you're wrong". In any case it's a basic concept, if somone goes out looking for something, they will find it. But that is mostly due to their bias. I could read the bible looking for evidence of alien activity and chalk up half of the strange occurances therein to ET's... that doesn't mean that the bible is actually talking about aliens, only that I wanted it to at the time. People read out of it what they want to.

2005-02-19 [Rizzen]: which, considering what started this whole thing, is what I was saying about the article about the Jehovah's witnesses

2005-02-19 [HiddenFire]: In other words... because we both understand this fact, we realize that who is actually "right" is very difficult to determine. Is it just me or did we just reach an understanding? o.0

2005-02-19 [duende_negro]: Well if We don't reach any understandings... Imagine...

2005-02-19 [Rizzen]: I think we reached an understanding of a kind

2005-02-19 [i am heddas lost brother]: Hahhahahahahaahahahahhaahahaa, damnit this page made me laugh:) you guys are so funny!

2005-02-19 [The Scarlet Pumpernickle]: um ok.....I think we should just agree to disagree...

2005-02-19 [i am heddas lost brother]: adam and steve, HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

2005-02-19 [The Scarlet Pumpernickle]: Ok seriously stimpy give it a rest.

2005-02-19 [Rizzen]: ignore him, he's just another fool desperate for attention

2005-02-19 [i am heddas lost brother]: no i mean, thats just funny, goddamn man, oh my god, jesus christ.......ah for fucks sake, dont you people have something else to do? go play outside or something, you even take yourselves seriously:)  but thanks for the laugh:) jesus goddamn:)

2005-02-19 [Poot]: Wow, he is just as pathetic on this wiki page just like on every other, yeah just ignore him, he should go away after awhile, hes like a rash, if you dont irritate it or scratch it, it will go away soon, oh and awesome wiki by the way...

2005-02-19 [Rizzen]: I'm confused here. first you say this wiki page is pathetic, and then you end with "awesome wiki". Which is it?

2005-02-19 [i am heddas lost brother]: she is a schizo

2005-02-20 [Dil*]: I think the rights of a person outweigh the sanctity or traditions of marriage.

2005-02-20 [The Scarlet Pumpernickle]: no no no empty said stimpy was pathetic...not that the wiki was

2005-02-20 [Dil*]: eh..I'm trying to bring something up for debate..

2005-02-20 [Dil*]: oh wait...there's a debate page *shoots in that direction*

2005-02-20 [Rizzen]: in this case I'd say the rights of a peson mean squat all. they still have civil union. But marriage was created by God, a being who is far more important than any mere human

2005-02-20 [Dil*]: How about the non-religious people shit...take this to the arguement page kay.

2005-02-20 [duende_negro]: but just for those who belive in him....

2005-02-20 [Dil*]: You CAN'T make a bloody exclusive law.

2005-02-20 [duende_negro]: I was responding to Rizzen

2005-02-20 [Dil*]: oh..

2005-02-20 [i am heddas lost brother]: uno problemo, why did god create gay people?(if the dude eve excists)

2005-02-20 [Radioactive Flea]: Ignore [i am heddas lost brother], he's got a nasty little problem with posting random or just stupid things in many wiki's lately.

2005-02-20 [Rizzen]: Duendo, it's not just for those who believe in God. Whether you regognize him or not, he is the God of all. Refuse it all you like, eventually you will realize the truth, either in life or in death. And I pray that it is during life. And normally I would ignore stimpy, but his question needs addressing. God created

2005-02-20 [Rizzen]: humanity, and he created them heterosexual. However, he has left humanity with free choice, and as long as humanity has that, some will inevitabely stray from the flock

2005-02-20 [OrangeFire16]: Hello it's me, second in comand i don't talk very much but i just thought i'd say that it's nearly been a year since the straight way started and you people really have gotten nowhere you guys are still talking about the same things you were talking about in the beginning i'm starting to think there will never be an agreement on whos right =(

2005-02-20 [HiddenFire]: Morality is relative... It's not really about whose right. I think at this point, somone just wants to win.

2005-02-20 [Rizzen]: well, to be honest, what did you expect? For a single wiki to rid Elftown of everyone who's gay? The wiki is set up for those who don't agree with homoexuality, and that's what you got. Here on the internet there is a very limited amount we can do without getting banned.

2005-02-20 [Dil*]: That's assuming god exists, and that the Christian god is the right one. We're talking about laws here, religion and the law should be seperate! There are legal things attached to marriage and that's a big thing. If non-religious people can marry, why can't gay people marry? And please don't preach more christianity...it's rather irritating; especially for people who have no intention of converting.

2005-02-20 [Rizzen]: if you can't stand the religious ceremony, simply don't use it. There is always civil union available

2005-02-20 [Dil*]: Civil union?

2005-02-20 [Rizzen]: the joining of two people by a judge instead of a minister/reverend/pastor/etc...

2005-02-20 [HiddenFire]: There are other religions that are more than happy to join two people of any sex in marriage. Right now the fact that marriage liscenses are hard to come by for these couples is the only thing stoping them.

2005-02-20 [Dil*]: There are parts of the church that accept gay marriage. It'd divided though, so it is possible to get a pastor or whatever to marry two gay people. You can't force people to do things....

2005-02-20 [Rizzen]: however these people are far into the minority

2005-02-20 [Dil*]: I agree with hiddenfire. In canada gays can marry, no one really cares.

2005-02-20 [HiddenFire]: Just become someone is a minority doesn't make them wrong. At one point christianity was limited to just 15-20 people... and durring certain times they where hunted and killed. At one point, they where the minority. I'm sure you don't doubt that they where not wrong.

2005-02-20 [Dil*]: Protection of the minority=democracy.

2005-02-20 [Rizzen]: no one besides those against it. I can tell you for a fact that people care. There was a big protest outside the government building in my city a while ago arguing against homosexuality. If that doesn't show people care about the issue, what does?

2005-02-20 [Dil*]: Depends where you are.

2005-02-20 [Rizzen]: not really. Wherever there is Christianity, there will be opposition. And considering Chrsitianity is the biggest, most widespread religion in north america, the location doesn't really matter

2005-02-20 [Dil*]: How about the christians that accept gay marriage, ever heard of that?

2005-02-20 [Rizzen]: aye, I have, however, as I have already stated, those people are far in the minority

2005-02-20 [Dil*]: A growing minority.

2005-02-20 [Rizzen]: but still a minority. It will take a very long time for those Christians who accept gay marriage to even equal the number of those who don't

2005-02-20 [Dil*]: probably, I forget the pope's stance on this.

2005-02-20 [Rizzen]: I'm pretty sure he's against it. The catholics are the most rigid sect of Christianity on this subject, and they consider any waste of semen, especially because of homosexual activity, an unforgivable sin

2005-02-20 [Dil*]: I've heard of that wasting of semen thing, it's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.

2005-02-20 [Rizzen]: not really, considering we were commanded by God to "go forth and mulitply". And considering that means successful procreation, the spilling of semen is blatently against that

2005-02-20 [Snowboarding Hobitz]: you're the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard....what is with all this arguing? Gaw people, just agree to disagree, you're not changing anyones mind

2005-02-20 [Rizzen]: never expected to. However since both sides are content to discuss, I don't see why we should stop now

2005-02-20 [Dil*]: So....if you get like a wetdream one night you kill like millions of sperm...is that mass murder? An women apparently kill one potentional person every month. Umm, no, just no...I'll never get that.

2005-02-20 [HiddenFire]: *reminded of the Monty Python song "Every Sperm is Sacred"* Premature ejaculation would also be an unforgivable sin. I wonder how many catholics that happens to? LOL

2005-02-20 [Dil*]: lol, I've heard that song..

2005-02-20 [HiddenFire]: Actually I don't think it woudl be a sin... I mean do you sin if you accidentally kill somone?

2005-02-20 [Dil*]: Controversy overload! *hits head on keyboard*

2005-02-20 [HiddenFire]: I know you still go to jail if it's an accident. Shaking a kid because they won't shut up... their neck snaps or their brain knocks around in their head... they die... you didn't mean to kill them. Not everything is black and white.

2005-02-21 [Snowboarding Hobitz]: um, in case you've never been to biology, sperm and eggs are only DNA, its not untill they combine that they become a human, true its 'potential' human, but than again, so is every cell in out body

2005-02-21 [HiddenFire]: I know. I can kick just about anyone's ass when dealing with biology. But back in biblical times the woman was considered little more than the soil in which the man planted his seed. So to them... semen was liquid life. So to speak.

2005-02-21 [Carrick]: I have something to say to Rizzen... You say their just a minority right? Well why must you reduce them to numbers? All things start as a minority but eventually it all evens out. Thats how the scales of life balance. Christianity started as a minority thousands of years ago... That was when the pagans were the most popular outlook on life. Looking at history you could say that christianty hasnt started dieng out yet but according to the numbers paganism is making a comeback. So you see if you base everything on numbers you miss bigger ideas. And christianity is only the biggest religeon in norh america. In the world the biggest religeons are hinduism and buhhdim. They dont loook down on any

2005-02-21 [Carrick]: people for what they do or how they act. Do you people understand that your one of the most drisciminatory religeons of all time? Why can't you just get over your sissy fits and accept it? You know even after you die people will still be gay....

2005-02-21 [Carrick]: And the world wont really change if gays are allowed peace. How would you like it if thouse thousands of so called minorities showed up on your door step and rebelled at you calling you dirty christians or thowing things... There's enough "minority" in this world to ban together to become a majority and if you dont settle down they just might. If you let them live in peace they'll let you live in peace....

2005-02-21 [Dil*]: I've heard 10% of all people were homosexual or bi. So that is alot.

2005-02-21 [Queen of Hearts]: where did you hear that?

2005-02-21 [Dil*]: My school counciller, but I haven't checked it out myself yet. Will do, if you disagree. Personally I think it's true, since...these past 2 years...3 of my friends came out of the closet :)

2005-02-21 [Queen of Hearts]: lol no its not that i'm doing coursework on homosexutality so i was just wondering if what you were saying was true or not

2005-02-21 [Dil*]: You can go look it up if you want.

2005-02-21 [i am heddas lost brother]: i am gay

2005-02-21 [Queen of Hearts]: lol i'm going to later

2005-02-21 [i am heddas lost brother]: 20% of da bitches here in the netherlands is gay

2005-02-21 [i am heddas lost brother]: muhahahahaha

2005-02-21 [HiddenFire]: The figures are all over the place... I've heard people who said that if the entire gay/bi population of the US came out at once that it would be more like 25% That's one in four. I'm not sure I believe that... but still... I think it's based on predicting just how many gays/bis that never come out. *shrugs* I think 10% is a much fairer number.

2005-02-21 [Dil*]: err..okay.

2005-02-21 [i am heddas lost brother]: just accept it, some people are gay, some arent, fucking get over it beyotches

2005-02-21 [HiddenFire]: Stimpy, I'de tell you to shut your mouth... but this is the net... so bridle your fingers. You do not help the cause by making yourself look the fool.

2005-02-21 [Dil*]: I would believe 10% is the right number

2005-02-21 [Snowboarding Hobitz]: oh...okay, i had to check the title of this wiki for a moment, i was afraid I'd steped into support gay marriage for a moment...

2005-02-22 [Rizzen]: welly welly well well. It seems I have some couter points to bring about. Here we go. Yes Christianity was in the minority, and yes it grew into one of the biggest religions in the world. Telly you a little something doesn't it. If such an underdog can grow to be so accepted something must be right there. As for descriminatory, don't pull the speck out of our eyes until you pull the log out of you'r own. Ever made fun of someone? You'r doing the same thing. Hipocritical arguments mean nothing. As for acceptance, well... as many have told us, just accept the fact that people are gay. Another hipocritical argument. Ever try to just accept the fact that we don't agree wth the gay lifestyle? And

2005-02-22 [Misty Air]: :)

2005-02-22 [Rizzen]: if the masses ever show up on my door shouting and throwing stones, let them. I fear no earthly power. The worst they can deal is death, and that will be welcomed with open arms. Do not speak to me of sissy fits, you are just as close minded as you claim us to be

2005-02-22 [Misty Air]: Your so cool Rizzen.

2005-02-22 [Snowboarding Hobitz]: thats true, and amen to that!!!

2005-02-22 [Rizzen]: well thank you Ice Princess

2005-02-22 [Dil*]: Hmm, If I replied to that...it would involve insulting someone's religion. So I'm just not going to say anthing. Still here though :P

2005-02-22 [Snowboarding Hobitz]: but you DID just say something....

2005-02-22 [Dil*]: Yes. but not insulting anyone, that's the important thing. 

2005-02-22 [Snowboarding Hobitz]: yes...it is...and thats the first step -golf claps-

2005-02-22 [Misty Air]: lol

2005-02-22 [Snowboarding Hobitz]: wow...thats reminds me of first grade...grow up

2005-02-22 [Snowboarding Hobitz]: hello I'm snowboards, i'm old enough, thin enough, and nothing is my life....THIS IS FUN!!!

2005-02-22 [HiddenFire]: I don't think anyone here likes or takes stimpy seriously. I agree, they need to grow up. Stimpy, no one here is on your side.

2005-02-22 [Snowboarding Hobitz]: are you retarded?

2005-02-22 [Snowboarding Hobitz]: so i figured

2005-02-22 [Snowboarding Hobitz]: -does a dance- WOOT!!! and I finished my paper thats due in two days!!!!

2005-02-22 [Misty Air]: lol

2005-02-22 [Rizzen]: wow has this gone downhill. Someone really needs to talk to the page owner about turning over the page ownership so someone can delete stimpy

2005-02-22 [Rizzen]: either that or we can report him to the guards

2005-02-22 [Radioactive Flea]: I'm rather good at deleting ignorant/offensive posts. In which case I'd do both suggested courses of action.

2005-02-22 [Rizzen]: indeed. I'll talk to Blackfire

2005-02-22 [HiddenFire]: I say for now... because we cannot delete the stimpystain's posts... that we just keep talking until we no longer see them. Ignore the mosquito bite and it will go away, scratch it and it will fester.

2005-02-22 [Rizzen]: indeed. I've already messaged Blackfire, so we'll just have to wait for his reply

2005-02-22 [Radioactive Flea]: Should we speak of the changing seasons and how Father Time is dragging his old feet though drying cement?

2005-02-22 [Rizzen]: sounds like fun. But I have to say, the changin seasons combined with the slowness of time made me laugh. My last summer never arrived. It was constantly about 10 degrees celcius lower that normal the whole summer. Normally we have about 20 to 30 degrees, and I don't think it went about 10

2005-02-22 [HiddenFire]: Right now in Arizona we're just getting tons of rain... well I say rain but it's more like it's just sprinkling constantly... but since this is Phoenix and we're in a valley... it has a tendency to cause flash floods and the occasional mud slide. o.0

2005-02-23 [Radioactive Flea]: My last summer was at least 20 degrees hotter than usual. I was nicely backed to a golden tan. We're in a valley to, extremely humid and easily flooded.

2005-02-23 [Rizzen]: grrr... I'm still stuck in the damn snow

2005-02-23 [Snowboarding Hobitz]: its frozen rain here....and my play practices are getting TOUGH!!! we moved onto the stage, and now i practice 3-4 times a week, and I'm TIRED!! argh....i stayed home today b/c i was sick, but i still had to give it my all at practice *I know, i"m off subject, sorry*

2005-02-23 [Rizzen]: ah theater practices. Good times, good memories

2005-02-23 [Kurai Tenma]: Deut practices are better. More fun to me anyway.

2005-02-24 [RaineDrop]:

2005-02-24 [i am heddas lost brother]: hahahhaahhahahahahahaaaaaaaaaa

2005-02-24 [Lioness123]: hey, who made that pic? I wanna know how they got that font! I need new fonts....

2005-02-24 [i am heddas lost brother]: HELLO LOL IM HOMOPHOBIC ANDF I CANTS SPELLZ LOLLZ http://elftown.lysator.liu.se/img/drawing/60967_1091143053.jpg

2005-02-24 [i am heddas lost brother]: we have ARE RIGHTS TOO LOLLY

2005-02-24 [RaineDrop]: i made the pink one just posted...and hey, some people can't spell....*shrugs* you saying fags can't misspell stuff too? back off [i am heddas lost brother] not everyone here has english as their first language...what if that badge were made by someone from, like, germany? it would be wrong of you to make fun of him/her because they don't speak the language perfectly...and the posted badge doesn't have that spelling mistake....so get lost

2005-02-24 [Lioness123]: we could turn around and say you're discriminating people with bad spelling skills

2005-02-24 [RaineDrop]: hehehe...and the font i used lioness is, like, old english or something

2005-02-24 [i am heddas lost brother]: ''you saying fags can't misspell stuff too?'' bitch, why do you call gay people ''fags''?

2005-02-24 [The Scarlet Pumpernickle]: Ok in the first place stimpy, you said you were homophobic in a attempt to trash this wiki.Being homophobic is not what this wiki is about. I do not agree with a gay life stile or marriage but I am not afraid of them. I go to school with many self proclaimed homosexuals and I do not shun them. I treat them with respect even though I do not support them. Maybe you should do the same for us. Secondly Raine as just as much right to call homosexuals "fags" as you have the right to call her a bitch so both of you cut out the name calling and grow up.

2005-02-24 [Rizzen]: just ignore stimpy, he's a wannabe belonger who seems the feel that if he can accumulate enough random crap on his page and enough people who hate him he'll feel like a person.

2005-02-24 [duende_negro]: "If it aint broke"???... that's stupid. I'm saying it. You can "not fix that",or say it, and it's not broken. I allredy told you, to be gay is not to choose.. you can't just choose that... you can predent but not choose... So are you saying (The one who did the banner) that gays aren't normal?... Well you said "If it ain't broke", like a thing? I have to ask... and say.

2005-02-24 [The Scarlet Pumpernickle]: I beleive Raine was refering to the impending change of the definition of marraige not about wether homosexuals choose to be gay or not

2005-02-24 [duende_negro]: What I sayd about chossing was just a comment. I asked about the "broken thing". Now we can not talk about interrupting marriage, or braking it. But are we talkign about marriage under the eyes of God? I need to say this, my english is not good, but I?mno english speaker

2005-02-24 [The Scarlet Pumpernickle]: Well I am sorry if I miss interpreted your statement but your comment seems to refer to raine's banner slogan "if it ain't broke" refering to choosing to be gay or nor. If that was not your intent please forgive my missinterpretation